I grew up on the internet, in an era when there were “no girls on the internet.” I don’t have sisters. My own parents were never married, split up when I was 6, and my mother moved a couple states away when I was 9. Although I’ve always made a point of embracing my femininity, people have long accused me of being a tomboy, having a “male brain,” etc. Wearing pretty dresses doesn’t fool them.
I do not share the modern female perspective. I never have.
Whether that’s more because I grew up in a nearly all-male environment, or, as my father suggests, because high-testosterone runs in the family (TBH I see more and more evidence for this as I get older), or because my mother’s shining example (of what NOT to do) turned me into something of a young misogynist – or some combination thereof – it is entirely unsurprising to me that https://www.rooshvforum.com/ is basically my favorite place on the internet. No, I don’t post there – but I read every. single. day. I hardly get news from anywhere else at this point; I hardly have to.
One of the things I love so much about RVF is that the guys over there, collectively, have an iron-clad track record of giving voice to my own thoughts on just about everything. If I see a news story that compels me to wax poetic about MY perspective, against the popular narrative – literally all I have to do is wait a few days and someone on RVF will post exactly what I was thinking, and usually say it better than I could have. Every. single. time. I don’t have to worry my pretty little head over it.
All the same, there remains an overarching anti-marriage narrative (on RVF and in the “manosphere” more broadly) that I just can’t get behind.
Now, I KNOW there are already at least a handful of men who have taken up “my side” of this argument “for me,” if you will – lots of good men out there defending marriage in the face of “Black Pill” ideology. So maybe I really don’t have to.
But there is this one particular thing that grates on me.
And since absolutely NO PART of this modern world has EVER honored my femininity in spite of all my efforts to cultivate that femininity for the benefit of my community and the world at large – I do feel, to an extent, that I have been simultaneously granted the right and saddled with the responsibility to speak up and say something about it. Not gonna keep my mouth shut on this one.
The thing that grates on me is that these “Black Pilled” men have a tendency to deride marriage as an institution and a sacrament – on the utterly myopic basis of their own failed relationships.
VERY OFTEN these men have themselves wasted the most prime years of their lives on fornication and adultery and other assorted debaucheries. Then they hit the “wall” (which doesn’t necessarily show on a man’s FACE and BODY – but absolutely shows in his attitude), and they scramble to lock down the “best they can get.”
These profoundly broken men go on to select women based on the same criteria they employed to secure fornication partners: they select women who appeal the most to their physical senses. They select women whom they perceive as being able to indefinitely extend the qualities of “hotness” and “excitement” over the course of a monogamous relationship. They choose a wife with their penis instead of with their brain.
That is IF they make a choice at all. Many of these men go on to marry whichever woman they accidentally impregnate, possessed of the apparent delusion that gluing together a few of the components of a “traditional marriage” with the adhesive of secular law, will give them as good a shot at a healthy marriage as anyone else.
When it all implodes on them, these men refuse to acknowledge the practical errors in their methodology, and instead choose to blame WOMEN.
If you listen to these guys, they’ll convince you that the world is absolutely BRIMMING with eligible, marriageable bachelors who want nothing more than to find a sweet, traditional, motherly woman to marry and raise a family with.
It’s WOMEN that are the problem, they insist.
These “Black Pilled” men hold marriage out as dangerous and too risky. It’s a “bad deal,” they say. No matter how objectively “good” a man is, and no matter how objectively “good” a women seems, these men INSIST that “all women are like that.”
All women are “hypergamous.” All women cheat. All women will demean, disrespect, and eventually divorce-rape their husbands, because they are women and that is all women are capable of.
Now, I despise women just as much as the next guy, with very few exceptions. I am not going to defend women as a demographic against much of anything, TBH. I acknowledge that most of these complaints have a very firm basis in reality.
Where these guys become disconnected from reality is by neglecting or refusing to take a look in the mirror – as individuals, and collectively.
Because lemme tell you something, gentlemen:
If YOU can use one or two spectacularly failed relationships/marriages to support the idea that marriage is always a bad deal for MEN, specifically…
I can do the same. damned. thing. on the other side of the fence.
At 19, I was damn near EVERYTHING these “trad” manosphere guys say a woman ought to be. Homeschooled, sheltered, highly domestic, virgin (handful of very tame kisses when I was 17-18, but that was IT), good relationship with my father, teetotaler, feminine, demure, cared about my appearance but never bought into whorish beauty standards – and absolutely dead-set on traditional marriage and family life (including saving my virginity for my future husband – NOT something I was pressured into; MY choice. MY priorities.).
According to the guys in the manosphere, I should have had it easy. I should have had traditional, conservative, religious men flocking to try to court me – because most men are not degraded to the same level as most women in modern society. This market imbalance should have guaranteed a steady stream of appropriate suitors from which to choose.
So why didn’t it?
Oh, there were plenty of interested men, don’t get me wrong.
None of them wanted a traditional wife.
My lack of academic and career ambition, my refusal-on-principle to set myself up to be a long-term secondary wage earner in a dual-income household, while also raising children, was the nail in the coffin for the vast majority of my budding romantic interests.
If I had a dollar for every time someone told me “it doesn’t work that way anymore,” I probably actually wouldn’t need a man.
And this was AFTER I had gone running into the arms of the Mormon Church – where the vast majority of men claim that traditional marriage and family is exactly what they want. Turns out they want all of the perks of that – they want the submissive, feminine wife who keeps a beautiful home and changes all of the diapers – but, by and large, they’re not willing to shoulder more than exactly half of the financial and legal responsibility for the household.
THAT, my friends, is what we call a bad deal.
It turns out – if I am to extrapolate from personal experience in the same way so many of the guys on RVF like to do – that a man who actually and truly values family more than he values money and material success, and who is willing to work hard for those things himself is a very rare man indeed.
My own father happens to be such a man – and fiercely protective throughout my youth, to boot. So it was easy, when I was younger, to imagine that these sorts of men were as plentiful as the self-selected manosphere crowd seems to think they are.
They are, in fact, not.
Finally – out of dozens of potentials that had piqued my interest (and I was never exactly picky, I had soft spot for the nerdy boys) – I found one. Or so I thought.
And no, I didn’t fall for a “jerk” or a “bad boy.” I married my best friend’s big brother. I was just shy of twenty when we married, and we’d known each other since I was twelve. Ostensibly he wanted all of the same sorts of things I did. Shared values as far as I could see. This was easy to believe, because he grew up in exactly the kind of family I hoped to have: rural, religious, conservative, homeschooling, DIY mentality, frugal, family-centric, etc. My father approved of him. The only reason my mother DISAPPROVED of him was because he was from conservative religious family and she’s a raging feminazi.
So we married (less than a year after he returned home from his two-year stint as a door-to-door Mormon missionary). We attended church faithfully together. We were sealed in the Mormon temple “for time and eternity.” I taught Sunday school for years.
I gave him heart, I gave him my virginity (a little prior to the wedding night, but fighting against the prevailing culture all my life, I thought holding out until engagement was a pretty solid victory at the time), I gave him my hand in marriage, I gave him my absolute uncontested loyalty/fidelity/devotion, I gave him two beautiful sons. I served him three home-cooked meals from scratch every day. I treated him like a king and kept a beautiful, comfortable home. All I asked was that he provide for us and wear the pants – and he needn’t scarcely lift a finger around the house.
I did all of this, and steadfastly supported and helped him in every way I could throughout the marriage – including working full-time until our first child was born, and thereafter maintaining a small but legitimately profitable home business, which paid the rent at least once when we were really hard-up.
Through every single bump in the road we faced together, I stood by him. Even when the bump was that he was unemployed for long stretches and not even looking for work, and really kind of just being a big gay baby about it. I STOOD BY MY HUSBAND.
I heard plenty enough murmurings to know that pretty much all of his friends/co-workers/male family members/etc. were envious. People would straight-up ask him, right in front of me, “where did you find one like THAT?” I’m not looking for a medal for that or anything – the point is, I DID MY JOB. I took pride in doing it well.
What did I get in return for my wifely submission and devotion?
Well, I found myself with a man who, frankly, worked harder at shirking responsibility and foisting it off on me – than he would have had to work if he’d just accepted it.
I found myself with a man who had grown increasingly emotionally volatile over the course of the marriage, in spite of my every attempt to facilitate calm and keep an even keel.
Sometimes it really seemed like he was doing EVERYTHING IN HIS POWER to make me leave him. It seemed like he had no interest in me or in our family – although at the time, I still could not fathom how that could be the case, given all the conversations we’d had and dreams we’d shared prior to and in the earlier days and years of our marriage.
He didn’t want me sexually, either – even though I was (supposedly) his “first” too, my novelty wore off pretty quickly. After two children, I was only up 10 or 15 pounds from what I weighed when we married (and most of that was boob, because I was nursing) – and I’d learned to take much better care of my appearance, and always made an effort to dress and “do myself up” in ways that he liked. OTHER MEN leered at me. And he would just ignore me. Once I decided I was tired of trying to initiate sex and being brushed off, and that we would just only do it when he wanted to for a while. He didn’t so much as TOUCH me for six whole months.
When he started becoming increasingly aggressive and borderline violent with our older son (who was then just a toddler), I insisted that he speak to our “bishop” (local Mormon Church leader) and pursue some counseling, at least for himself and preferably for us as a couple.
And what came out of THAT? SO many revelations:
– He had never actually wanted to marry or have children. Why he did it anyway was halfway between being pressured into it by his family, and (delusionally) seeing me as some kind of meal ticket. His words: “if I hadn’t married you, I’d probably still be living with my parents.”
– He had a raging pornography addiction since long before we married, which he went to some lengths to keep hidden from me, considering that by HIS OWN ESTIMATION, he spent more time masturbating to pornography during the first 2-3 years of our marriage than he spent gainfully employed during ALL. SEVEN. YEARS. OF. IT.
– He felt like he had “missed out” on something by settling down young. HE WANTED AN OPEN MARRIAGE. He didn’t come out and say it like that all at once, no. It was baby steps into it, from suggesting first that we could watch porn together (it would improve our intimacy and spice things up, he said – carrot dangled), and on down into Hell from there.
– He then proceeded to take every single weakness I had ever laid before him, as his wife – imploring him for help, support, protection, etc. as my husband – and he used these things against me (including what I shared with him early on in our relationship of my vaguely-remembered childhood trauma).
Looking back on it, I find myself in the awkward position of not being able to say that he “made me DO” anything – but also being shocked and appalled and dumbfounded that I went along with what he wanted.
Men try to say that “only women use sex as a weapon” or “only women refuse sex in marriage so they can use it selectively to get what they want.”
Gentlemen, I’d like to introduce you to my ex-husband. He was as manipulative and ill-intentioned as the WORST feminist harpy divorce-rapist. And I was the virgin bride with oneitis SO BAD – I wanted HIS approval and validation, and I wanted HIM to desire ME, so badly – that it never even seriously occurred to me to leave him when all this came out.
Even though it took me a whole YEAR to get comfortable with what he was asking of me. In my mind, it was better to stay with my husband. It was better to give him whatever he wanted to try to keep my family together. It was better to try to change myself to please him, then to have to try to start over from nothing as “used goods” with a divorce under my belt. By the end of that marriage, he had me actually believing that nobody else would want me.
I went into that relationship an idealistic virgin, and I came out the other side with a “notch count” of nearly 30 – no, NOT because I was “hypergamous,” NOT because I strayed – but because my “husband” bartered my body to other men for the “privilege” of screwing their fat, ugly wives and girlfriends. Because he wanted “sexual variety” and didn’t want to have to put in any of the work to get it on his own steam.
I finally left him when his “jokes” about literally prostituting me for money started turning into semi-serious requests that I take up whoring to replace his income so he wouldn’t have to suffer the “degradation” of being forced to work a regular 9-to-5.
I can’t even count all the times thereafter when *I* had to stand stone-faced, unshakeable, while this “man” – who had 6+ inches of height over me and about 70 lbs of mass to his physical advantage – got in my face and yelled and screamed and threatened me.
I took nothing when I left, aside from my own clothing and personal items. The children even stayed living with him, and I would watch them at his house while he worked, until we reached a point where we could work out a custody agreement between ourselves.
I spent THREE WHOLE YEARS oh-so-gently extricating myself from that entanglement, easing and coddling him through the separation and eventual divorce process entirely outside of the court system (aside from the state-mandated meeting with a clerk and online co-parenting course).
We’d been on food stamps nearly the entirety of our marriage – but I withdrew myself and the children from ALL welfare programs in advance of the divorce, so that the State would have no legal standing to pursue him in collecting all of the child support that I knew he wouldn’t pay.
I didn’t have a bunch of money or material assets sitting around for him to take half of – but that does NOT mean I didn’t lose everything I’d spent the previous 10+ year of my life building. Doesn’t mean I didn’t get the short end of that stick – and I’ll venture to say I took it standing like more of a man than a lot of the overgrown boys out there fearfully complaining about how dangerous marriage is for those poor men who might suffer a setback to their material enjoyment of life (oh, heaven forbid).
Loads of people have asked me WHY. Why didn’t I throw the book at him? Why didn’t I take him to the cleaners? Why didn’t I shoot him down and nail him to the wall with all the ammunition he gave me through his volatile and unhinged behaviors (and there were many)? HIS OWN FAMILY has asked me these questions, as they’ve come to realize what REALLY went down.
I guess HIS story (which he called around and told to EVERYBODY, even my own parents) was that *I* left him because *I* wanted to run around and party. HIS story was that ONE DAY I just woke up and decided that *I* wanted to sleep around.
The truth of the matter, that these accusations were actually outrageous projections, became pretty clear as time passed, and as I pulled a 180 from the degeneracy I’d followed him into, and poured all my spare time and energy into providing for our children without his contributions… and HE was the one going to sex parties, orgies, BDSM events, etc. And trying to convince his family they should accept him and applaud him for this “progressive” behavior.
CAN YOU BEGIN TO SEE why a gal might question all of the “hypergamy nightmare” stories that are shared on the internet?
CAN YOU BEGIN TO SEE that manipulating and using people for resources and behaving reprehensibly in marriage is NOT exclusive to the female sex?
CAN YOU BEGIN TO SEE that not all women are like that? And that perhaps, in fact, some men are like that?
So why DIDN’T I try to throw the book at him? Why DIDN’T I take him to the cleaners? WHY DIDN’T I “destroy” my ex-husband when I decided to divorce him? If he was so clearly in the wrong, and given every opportunity to do so? Given a system that would have made it EASY? A system that ENCOURAGED ME TO DO THIS? How is it that I did not do this – if this is all women are capable of? If this is the only tactic we have at our disposal, to employ for survival?
How is it that I have chosen, at every opportunity he has given me to punish him or extract resources from him in some way – to instead bite my tongue and stay my hand? To WORK HARDER instead of making demands – even though it was and is absolutely my legal right to do so?
Part of it stems from a deep-seated sense of honor and obligation – something women are apparently not supposed to have.
But it is also because I know something most people apparently don’t know.
What I know, what I understand absolutely, profoundly, and without question to be THE TRUTH, is that our culture is not steeped in a battle between men and women, masculine and feminine.
If you think that’s what this is, you have sidestepped or have been blinded to the truth entirely.
This is a battle wherein the Sons of Adam and the Daughters of Eve stand together, united, against the demonic progeny of Samael and Lilith. Godly men and women united against the Satanic and Jezebel spirits. This is and has always been and always shall remain a battle of Good against Evil.
And I know that if a man is not my father or my husband – he is my brother.
I cannot briefly summarize all of the thoughts and feelings and reasonings – and, I believe, divine revelations – that went into my youthful decision to pursue marriage and family above all else.
There do certainly exist righteous and godly alternatives to marriage and procreation. When I was a little girl, I seriously considered being a nun. Even though I was quite ignorant of what all that entailed, I always had the innate sense that this was the only suitable alternative to physical marriage, childbearing, child-rearing: spiritual marriage, spiritual motherhood, the fostering and uplifting of souls – in Christ.
What I can say is that I went into the endeavor with my eyes as open as they likely could have been. All of the arguments I see the “MGTOWs” throwing around are arguments I had considered at length, long prior to seeking or entering any kind of courtship. My own father warned me against marriage entirely, employing all of those arguments and then some.
What if he’s a liar? A cheater? A scoundrel? What if he abandons you? What if he abuses you? What if, what if, what if…? All of these arguments intended to convince me that the only viable way forward in life, the only path that could possibly lead to the all-desirable outcomes of “success” and “happiness” – was to turn my back utterly on the path of godly living; that the only safe thing to do would be to embrace the modern lifestyle of remaining legally single and self-sufficient, relying on nobody, because ultimately nobody can be trusted.
I recognized all of these possibilities going in. I jumped headlong into the labor of marriage and family not because I didn’t think these things could happen to me. Not because I had leveraged myself into some kind of materially advantageous position where I could be reassured that their potential happening was unlikely.
I went into the endeavor of finding a husband for the purpose of having children, for the purpose of raising a family. For the purpose of the bringing up of souls in the light of God’s Truth. I did this even though I understood quite well, having not been raised Christian at all, that I had (and still have) a long ways to go before I really and truly know what that means.
I undertook this labor with the FAITH that I did not HAVE to have everything perfectly figured out and lined up from the get-go. With the FAITH that, insofar as I do my best, it will not be beyond me to raise my children correctly – that, even if my husband were to DIE inexplicably and leave me with nothing and no man willing to step in – God would fill in where I fall short.
NOT NECESSARILY TO THE ENDS OF MATERIAL SUCCESS –
BUT OF SPIRITUAL SALVATION.
I undertook this labor with the understanding that it would be easy to fail in every material sense. With the understanding that the very culture I was steeped in from the moment of my birth would fight and rail against my efforts at every turn.
I undertook this labor with the understanding that it was more likely than not that I would necessarily be, at some point, for whatever reason, in whatever fashion, required to sacrifice a great deal of myself for the sake of my children. The thoughts and possibilities and speculative visions that crossed my mind were those of agony and death so horrific I don’t care to explicate.
I never truly thought that I could be a nun – though I’ve often wondered if those might not have been the devil’s whisperings. The most profound hallmark of the abuse I endured in early childhood was a tragically premature awakening of the passions – of those feelings of sexual desire and frustration. I was surprisingly good at keeping those desires in check while in my youth, but I never had the sense that I could ever overcome them completely – though I dearly wished I could.
And so there was never any question in my mind that I would accept every suffering and every hardship of worldly marriage and motherhood – a determination which I now recognize as an intuitive understanding and acquiescence to the will of God as made abundantly clear in Genesis, with regard to the consequences of Original Sin.
I understood in a way that I could not articulate at the time, that “figuring out how to do it all on easy mode” was a seductive lie. Easy Mode is the Devil’s Mode.
The TL;DR of it all is that I always knew mothers in fields with their children look a whole lot more like this:
And look at what happened! OH MY GOD, MY FATHER (who seemed to think I had a snowball’s chance in hell of finding an honest-to-goodness traditional man ANYWHERE) WAS EXACTLY RIGHT.
Clearly, all men are like this.
All men are liars.
All men are porn addicts.
All men are lazy slackers who want a woman to provide for them.
All men are secret degenerates and debauchers and whoremongers.
All men will strategically withhold sex in order to psychologically manipulate their women into engaging in whatever perversions are necessary to excite them in their sexually-numbed-and-jaded condition.
All men bully, intimidate, yell, and scream at their women.
All men care about money and material comfort more than they care about their family.
All men, given the requisite opportunity and influence, will prostitute their women – for money or personal gain, or likely both.
Basically all men are faggots.
Based on my personal experience, supported by countless stories I’ve heard which I find agonizingly relatable – as well as accounts from men who have bragged about exploiting the weaknesses and vulnerabilities of women – I could write many convincing arguments to the effect that marriage is a terrible deal for WOMEN – excepting the very privileged few. From a material standpoint, from the perspective of someone who cannot abide or tolerate material loss, austerity, suffering, etc. of any kind, this seems quite obvious.
Any wayward daughter of Eve, turned loose, unsupervised and unprotected from the nature of her own femininity, has a better chance than not of being exploited for it – and the devil is throughout all times and in all places and in all guises lying in wait for this opportunity. This is one of the oldest stories in the book.
But to decry the institution, the union, the sacrament of marriage itself – in light of the many corruptions and failures of the world – is to be so seduced by those corruptions, so firmly under their power, so enslaved to the cycle of sin and vice and fear, as to act unwittingly in the body, in all the things you do and don’t do, as a militating force against goodness and against godliness – against family.
Setting about to extract as much as I possibly can from the world in terms of material resources and pleasures would not be a godly or righteous purpose, no matter how you spin it.
THAT is the alternative that is so popularly proposed to the “bad deal” of marriage and family, and I reject it utterly.
No matter how much pleasure the self-serving path might in truth afford.
No matter how much pain the righteous path might cost me.
Because the truth is that a person can do everything right – ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING – and yet receive no material reward for it. The only true example of “doing everything right,” Christ himself who lived and died without sin, was betrayed, tortured, and crucified. That was the material reward the world gave him, and God did not spare him from it on account of his sinlessness.
Conversely – a person may, in fact, do everything wrong and not suffer anything worse than a stubbed toe or bruised ego until they’re long dead and brought to reckoning.
Doing the right thing was never supposed to be easy.
If I had allowed the suffering and the hardships I faced as a result of becoming entangled with and influenced by a dishonest and ungodly man in the naivety and vulnerability of my youth to color my perception of all men, and of the institution of marriage as a whole – if I instead adopted the popular mindset that marriage is a bad deal and that I’m better off looking out for myself, well… we all know what that sounds like, don’t we?
Buncha pansy-ass milksop feminist codswallop, that’s what.
I know I’m not buying that.
Why do you? ❤